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Database Forum / General DB Topics / General DB Topics / December 2004A Database for a Small Business
I am looking for free or shareware database to keep records in my small business. In a year I will have several hundreds of records with customer and product information. I have no experience with databases, so something with a steep learning curve and high maintenance may not work for me. Thanks in advance for the help. SNTP > I am looking for free or shareware database to keep records in my small > business. In a year I will have several hundreds of records with [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers > =----- MySQL is what you are looking for. It's the easiest command-line database I've ever used and will take tens of thousands of records with no problems. It is also free. John >> I am looking for free or shareware database to keep records in my >> small business. In a year I will have several hundreds of records [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > John John, thanks for the response. Unfortunately, I am a humble WinXP user and command-line stuff is well beyond my capabilities. :-{ SNTP >>> I am looking for free or shareware database to keep records in my >>> small business. In a year I will have several hundreds of records [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > SNTP That's a shame. As a lot of the guys in this group will tell you, designing and using databases is non-trivial. I can appreciate that as a small business you are trying to keep your costs down, but I would encourage you to talk to someone who can design a database and do some programming. If you design this database badly (always a possibility) then you could well have problems 2 years down the line when you have hundreds of customers, and thousands of products to migrate. To give you an idea of costs for this sort of job, you could expect to get a MySQL/PHP web based solution for hundreds rather than thousands of pounds if you provided a clear and straightforward job description. Just my opinion! John > That's a shame. As a lot of the guys in this group will tell you, > designing and using databases is non-trivial. I can appreciate that as a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > John John, I do realize that complex database designing should be done by professionals. It is probably the time to give a few more details about my plans. The database will be sitting on one computer and used by one person at a time. It will be used for small heating and air conditioning business. A couple of hundreds sales a year. I am planing to keep in the database: -customer info ( nothing sensitive) -units sold info for recall and warranty purposes -expenses -something else that will come to mind too late :-{ Most of the records will become inactive very soon after the sales. Professionals or not, I will be the one to run the database. This is the reason I am looking for a non complicated database - easy to install, use and maintain by an average user. I am still hoping that it is possible. <VBG> Thanks again for your input. > > That's a shame. As a lot of the guys in this group will tell you, > > designing and using databases is non-trivial. I can appreciate that as a [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Thanks again for your input. Approach is more than adequate for your needs. You will probably get some additional ideas from the SmartMasters. > > Approach is more than adequate for your needs. You will probably get some > additional ideas from the SmartMasters. Can't wait until CD arrives. May take a couple of weeks this time of the year. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7121932694 > > That's a shame. As a lot of the guys in this group will tell you, > > designing and using databases is non-trivial. I can appreciate that as a [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =----- Why not look at Quicken Quick Books? For a pretty small fee you get a lot of canned functionality. The database, UI etc. al already designed. It won't cost you much and you can call a number for help. Jim >I do realize that complex database designing should be done by >professionals. Simply not true. But then most people don't know about Alpha 5 database software. Yes, there are professionials who are making very decent money using Alpha 5 and designing applications for small, medium, and even large companies and organizations. But there are many very satisfied non-programmer, individual users such as yourself who love the program due to it NOT requiring programming to develop some rather sophisticated apps. (At the most sophisticated levels, developers can use a language called Xbasic, but it's absolutely not necessary to create some very impressive applications.) >It is probably the time to give a few more details about my plans. >The database will be sitting on one computer and used by one person at a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >-expenses >-something else that will come to mind too late :-{ Alpha 5's Home Edition suits exactly what you're describing - a single computer (no network, no web-based applications). It's available for 30 days of evaluation (full version), then you decide if you want to continue with it. If you do, you simply pay for it and continue using whatever you developed during the evaluation period, and keep on improving it. And your last line above is another reason to get as good a program as you can. If you get very good with the Home Edition (only a slightly scaled down version of the full Alpha 5 version 5), and if you expand with great success in your business, you can simply upgrade to the full-blown version and continue using (and improving) what you created with the home edition. Here's a detailed description of the capabilities: http://www.alphasoftware.com/products/alphafive/homeedition.asp And here's the list of limitations with some additional Q & A about the differences between the full version and the Home Edition (not significant for what you want): http://www.alphasoftware.com/products/a5v5/homefaq.asp >Professionals or not, I will be the one to run the database. This is the >reason I am looking for a non complicated database - easy to install, >use and maintain by an average user. I am still hoping that it is >possible. <VBG> It most definitely is. And if you don't like what you start with entirely, you're not stuck with it, or stuck paying more big-bucks to a developer to modifiy and upgrade it for you. I originally bought it mostly out of curiousity at an incredible price back in their old Alpha 4 ver. 1 days (mid- 80s or so) when they were practically giving it away to get it "out there." As time went on, I purchased the runtime edition with which I developed a few fairly simple applications for a genealogy library, a government office in which I currently work, and eventually a program used by a fairly well-known non-profit national organization. That was the first (and so far only) application I've actually sold (or tried to sell), only because I'm currently too busy to develop more commercial applications as a side business - until I "retire" in a few years. Yet I've never yet learned any programming when using the program, and despite it only being a DOS-based program when I sold the one application, it was still wonderfully powerful. I've continued to upgrade to the current version 6, in order to be ready to "retire" and move into a "job" I'll enjoy considerably more than what I now do. I know I can do it - I've already done it before with the donated applications and eventually the sold project (which paid for my runtime license back then <g> ). Here's a link specifically about the Home Edition of Alpha 5: http://www.alphasoftware.com/shop/prodlist.asp?TYPEID=14&TYPE=Alpha+Five+Home+Edition Both the fully functional trial version and the paid registered version are available there, as well as an explanation of how the $99 Home Version differs from the full-blown $349 version ($299 if you decide later to upgrade from the Home Edition). Again, I think you'll find that the Home Edition will be very applicable to what you want to do with it, yet you won't have to "start over" if you expand and have to network, or want a much more sophisticated database program as your business grows. And no, I don't work for, don't own stock in (I think they're privately held anyway), or otherwise have any financial interest in Alpha Software. I just happen to be a long-time user who's very satisfied with a sophisticated relational database program for non-programmers. Explore the Alpha Software site for great tutorials (free), available add-ons either from the company itself or from other developers, many (most) of which pertain to businesses, etc. This program has got to be one of the best kept secrets around, for whatever reason. C.R. >>I do realize that complex database designing should be done by >>professionals. > > Simply not true. > > C.R. I applaud you. It is thanks to courageous people such as yourself that I am financially solvent. Keep up the bad work. And I'll keep charging your employer consulting rates to make your hacks functional. My gratitude is near boundless.  SignatureDaniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace 'x' with 'u' to respond) >I applaud you. It is thanks to courageous people such as yourself >that I am financially solvent. Keep up the bad work. And I'll keep >charging your employer consulting rates to make your hacks functional. DA, I am so humbled now that you've opened my eyes regarding my stunning lack of comprehension. And here we have been using these pieces of junk for all these years, thinking they were actually working, not even noticing that they aren't functional! My only regret now is that in ceasing my fruitless efforts, I will no longer be able to help support you. But given the tone of your response, I'm certain your altruistic need to help others far outweighs any tendency toward narcissistic "what the market will bear" profit motive. Thanks so much for the life-changing understanding. I have already applied at the local burger place to see if they'll train me for something I can actually handle. C.R. > >I do realize that complex database designing should be done by > >professionals. [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > Here's a link specifically about the Home Edition of Alpha 5: http://www.alphasoftware.com/shop/prodlist.asp?TYPEID=14&TYPE=Alpha+Five+Home+Edition > Both the fully functional trial version and the paid registered > version are available there, as well as an explanation of how the $99 [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > C.R. I've used Alpha 4 and Alpha 5. They are good, but Approach is even easier to use and more powerful. I use Approach as front end to Oracle. > Explore the Alpha Software site for great tutorials (free), available > add-ons either from the company itself or from other developers, many > (most) of which pertain to businesses, etc. This program has got to > be one of the best kept secrets around, for whatever reason. > > C.R. C.R., Thank you very much for your detailed post. I will definitely give Alpha a try. SNTP >>I do realize that complex database designing should be done by >>professionals. > >Simply not true. But then most people don't know about Alpha 5 >database software. Alpha 5 is a desktop database. >Yes, there are professionials who are making very >decent money using Alpha 5 and designing applications for small, >medium, and even large companies and organizations. And being a desktop database, it is not scalable to meet the needs of large companies or organisations. >But there are many very satisfied non-programmer, individual users such as yourself >who love the program due to it NOT requiring programming to develop >some rather sophisticated apps. (At the most sophisticated levels, >developers can use a language called Xbasic, but it's absolutely not >necessary to create some very impressive applications.) Not knowing the principles of database design will lead to some nice looking but functionally inefficient or even flawed apps, no matter what tool you use. Well, after DA Morgan's kind words, this one set me off a bit. >Alpha 5 is a desktop database. True statement. No argument at all. I'm just not sure why that entered into a discussion based on an individual who's looking at a single, non- networked computer in his small business, and doesn't see the need in the foreseeable future for more than that. >And being a desktop database, [Alpha 5] is not scalable to meet the needs of >large companies or organisations. Ok, so GM might not want to use it, but I never even remotely implied that Alpha 5 is a do-everything-for-everybody-at-all-levels program. For the moment, I'll disregard the fact that this is still not relevent to this discussion. Perhaps you're not aware that Alpha 5 developers are no longer limited to a desktop interface. Version 6 of Alpha 5 now offers a web application server - with no complicated programming required. While unlikely to replace SQL Server, it certainly enhances the capabilities and broadens the potential user base for Alpha 5. So depending on where you want to draw the cutoff between "medium" and "large," your statement above is perhaps a bit too absolute. >Not knowing the principles of database design will lead to some nice >looking but functionally inefficient or even flawed apps, no matter >what tool you use. Certainly! No argument whatsoever from me. And I appreciate the fact that you at least recognize that "inefficient" is certainly more reasonable than DA Morgan's "non-functional." But if SNTP (originator of this thread) chooses to do it himself, and realizes that his original design isn't as good as he'd want it to be, he has a choice - either pay a qualified developer, or increase his own knowledge and do it himself. Even some of DA Morgan's unwashed have three digits in our IQs and can read a good design book or two if we care to "do it right." It's just possible that some non-professionals actually DO know the basics of good database design - regardless of how they acquired such knowledge. I never entered this discussion to challenge large scale developers, nor argue that an exceptionally complex database used in a major multi-national corporation could be adequately developed using Alpha 5. I admittedly used a rather vague term - "large" - that is now being argued as if it had specific parameters that had already been agreed upon in the beginning of this discussion. In reality, I merely took the opportunity to provide SNTP with another alternative, and hopefully improve his confidence level to a point where he might want to look beyond some of the canned approaches being suggested, but something short of other options presented which would have required him to learn to program. And I made a statement that there are some professional developers who use Alpha 5 for designing applications successfully used by small, medium, and even large organizations. Therefore, SNTP can likely handle at least his own VERY small organization. I never said "large" meant GM, Microsoft, Department of Defense, etc. We could argue all day long about what constitutes "large," but that'd be a waste of time, and not the point anyway. The point was simply to let SNTP know he had other options not requiring programming experience. And I'm not backing down from the use of "large," either. Some companies and organizations that could be defined as "large," don't necessarily need what a GM or a Microsoft needs Some "large" organizations can sometimes be very adequately served by Alpha 5. Some developers have certainly demonstrated that. At the same time, I also understand that Alpha 5 is likely to be ~more~ applicable to small and medium sized organizations and companies. What I primarily take issue with is the attitude of DA Morgan's not-so-benevolent god-like response to the mere mortals, suggesting that no one short of his level of education and experience could ever produce anything "functional" and lasting, and might not need his rescue - now or in the future. He was so quick to jump in that he failed to notice (or at least acknowledge) I never even remotely implied I considered myself a qualified professional database developer. I've been paid for exactly one relatively simple application for one national non-profit organization, and was essentially reimbursed for the cost of the runtime rights to Alpha 5 (plus an extremely small additional compensation for the time spent in subsequent program support). If that was assumed to be a statement that I consider myself a "professional," I'd be the first to deny it. Yet Morgan chose to take it to a personal level, and at the same time imply that only people like him (whatever his qualifications are anyway) have any business even trying to learn enough to develop at a fairly simple level (such as SNTP's single computer small business with limited needs), and that anyone not at Morgan's level is incapable of learning and growing in knowledge and competence. Or that such people are even capable of recognizing their own limitations. So, I'll get off the soapbox largely created by DA Morgan and propped a little higher by you, and simply remain standing where I entered this discussion - answering an individual with a very limited goal, limited knowledge, and a desire learn. I still maintain that professionals didn't start out as such. And along the way a very viable alternative from entry level up to rather sophisticated database development is not only possible, but available using Alpha 5 - with or without programming, desktop or web based. I'm not stupid enough to miss the fact that it's the design that counts, not the bells, whistles, GUIs, color schemes, buttons, pull-down menus, etc. But that wasn't what the original simple question was about. So if SNTP is even reading this part of the discussion I'd say: Go ahead and take the plunge. You'll undoubtedly make mistakes, wish you'd done some things differently down the road, and perhaps even completely revamp your design at some point in the future - whether you use Alpha 5, Lotus, or whatever. But you'll also learn in the process. So don't let anyone talk you out of giving it a try on your own. The mere fact that you found USENET and learned to use it probably puts you in at least the 3-digit IQ category, quite sufficient to actually learn something on your own via self-study and personal experience - without becoming so blind as to think you're then qualified to go to work for IBM, GM, etc., building databases. Plus, you're willing to come out and ask for others' ideas, assistance, etc. Hopefully you'll continue to get helpful responses such as what several decent folks have already provided you. Good luck with your project! C.R. >...I entered > this discussion - answering an individual with a very limited goal, > limited knowledge, and a desire learn... C.R. I think that everybody saw it that way and only that way. That was a very informative and inspiring post. I was exactly looking for an easy to use "desktop database" <BG>. I am still going through Alpha 5 help file. In January I will have more spare time and Alpha 5 will get a very fair try. > So if SNTP is even reading this part of the discussion I'd say: Go > ahead and take the plunge. You'll undoubtedly make mistakes, wish [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > C.R. I've gone that road many times and will go again without hesitation. <BG> Thanks again for all your help. SNTP >Ok, so GM might not want to use it, but I never even remotely implied >that Alpha 5 is a do-everything-for-everybody-at-all-levels program. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Alpha 5 now offers a web application server - with no complicated >programming required. I'm not aware, but I am aware that Claris Filemaker has had a web option since version 4, which is quite some time ago. So Alpha 5 has finally caught up. >While unlikely to replace SQL Server, it certainly enhances the capabilities and broadens the potential user >base for Alpha 5. So depending on where you want to draw the cutoff between "medium" and "large," your statement above is perhaps a bit >too absolute. I doubt if Alpha 5, web or not, would be able to cope with even moderate concurrent usage levels. The design would mitigate against good performance in such situations. >>Not knowing the principles of database design will lead to some nice >>looking but functionally inefficient or even flawed apps, no matter >>what tool you use. > >Certainly! No argument whatsoever from me. And the audience such products are targetted at is unlikely to know how to design a database properly. >And I appreciate the fact that you at least recognize that "inefficient" is certainly more >reasonable than DA Morgan's "non-functional." Yes, but both are flawed to one degree or another. >Even some of DA Morgan's unwashed have three digits in >our IQs and can read a good design book or two if we care to "do it >right." It requires more than 'reading a book or two'. >It's just possible that some non-professionals actually DO >know the basics of good database design - regardless of how they >acquired such knowledge. It is possible, but highly unlikely. >I never entered this discussion to challenge large scale developers, >nor argue that an exceptionally complex database used in a major >multi-national corporation could be adequately developed using Alpha >5. I would go as far as to say a moderately complex database in a medium-sized company would suffer from being implemented in such a database. It simply is not designed with concurrent usage in mind. Like MS Access, it excels at being a stand-alone, desktop database. However, the proliferation of such databases in companys of any reasonable size inevitably results in 'data islands'. >I admittedly used a rather vague term - "large" - that is now >being argued as if it had specific parameters that had already been >agreed upon in the beginning of this discussion. I would say, in this case, anything over 10 simultaneous users is pushing it. >Therefore, SNTP can likely handle at least his own VERY small >organization. Sure, and such a product would be ideal for small companies, provided it does what they want, and they are aware of the limitations. >I never said "large" meant GM, Microsoft, Department of >Defense, etc. I would say such a tool is inappropriate for a company with more than 10 employees actively using a single database. >..... > Explore the Alpha Software site for great tutorials (free), available [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > C.R. Just installed Home Edition for trial. The first impression - user friendly interface and well supported program. Has a nice introduction to the program written in plain English. This introduction is mostly an introduction to database basics which I am reading right now. If nothing else, by the time my Lotus CD arrives I will have an idea of what to look for an what to compare in database programs. SNTP >Just installed Home Edition for trial. The first impression - user >friendly interface and well supported program. Has a nice introduction >to the program written in plain English. This introduction is mostly an >introduction to database basics which I am reading right now. If nothing >else, by the time my Lotus CD arrives I will have an idea of what to >look for an what to compare in database programs. You might also want to look at Claris (Apple) Filemaker if you can get a Trial of that. It runs on both Windows and MacOS. >>Just installed Home Edition for trial. The first impression - user >>friendly interface and well supported program. Has a nice introduction [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You might also want to look at Claris (Apple) Filemaker if you can get > a Trial of that. It runs on both Windows and MacOS. Noel, thanks for the input. Filemaker shows at the top on every search list and I had checked their web site. I was scared away by descriptions like "... database software for workgroups", etc. Could be a bit too complicated for me at this point. Admit, I could be wrong. Claris is famous for making user friendly software. If memory serves me right, Claris used to be the Office Suite supplier for Apple computers until it was replaced for reasons not related to the quality of the product. SNTP >>>Just installed Home Edition for trial. The first impression - user >>>friendly interface and well supported program. Has a nice [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > SNTP Filemaker Pro is a beautiful product. It's incredibly easy to use for beginners and powerful enough for most power users. Don't be scared by the workgroup references. They are just trying to indicate that it is "scalable" -- if you expand beyond a single-user database, you can share the database with several coworkers in a workgroup, or expand further and buy Filemaker Pro Server. I've only glossed over a bunch of the messages in this thread but that said, Filemaker would be my personal choice for an easy to use but very powerful database for anyone but programmers, developers, and tech weenies (the type that develop databases with MySQL and PHP to store their address book of ten friends ;). Filemaker has a 30 day demo. I'd download it and play with it a bit. You may find yourself hooked. > .... > Filemaker Pro is a beautiful product. It's incredibly easy to use for [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Filemaker has a 30 day demo. I'd download it and play with it a bit. You > may find yourself hooked. zn, thanks for the input. Is it the one? http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3773&item=7123613537&rd=1 >> .... >> Filemaker Pro is a beautiful product. It's incredibly easy to use for [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3773&item=7123613 > 537&rd=1 Hi SNTP, that is FileMaker Pro on Ebay. I don't know how they can manage to sell it so cheaply. I would have assumed it was counterfeit if they hadn't said that it's legitimate. Anyone else care to chime in regarding the price? > ... > Hi SNTP, that is FileMaker Pro on Ebay. I don't know how they can manage > to sell it so cheaply. I would have assumed it was counterfeit if they > hadn't said that it's legitimate. Anyone else care to chime in regarding > the price? zn, sometimes you do get amazing deals at eBay. I got WinXP and 2 programs from Symantec for a fraction of the cost. Had no problems with registering and daily automatic updates. Look at how much I paid for the entire Lotus Suite including Approach database. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7121932694 Back to FileMaker,I come across one link "Why Select Alpha Five instead of Filemaker?" http://www.alphasoftware.com/products/a5v5/a5vsfilemaker.asp. Not a surprise it was posted on Alpha's site. But one thing in comparison did catch my attention - Alpha uses industry standard data format (.dbf) and FileMaker uses proprietary format. How much this would be an issue should one decides to switch from FileMaker to some other DB? Apples' entire history is about being proprietary. Thanks, SNTP >> ... >> Hi SNTP, that is FileMaker Pro on Ebay. I don't know how they can [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > for the entire Lotus Suite including Approach database. > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7121932694 I guess that is a legitimate deal then. > Back to FileMaker,I come across one link "Why Select Alpha Five > instead of Filemaker?" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > SNTP Filemaker, as well as most other databases (if not all), can export its data into a variety of formats that can be imported into other programs. At one job, I frequently did exports and imports between Filemaker and a program that saved its data into Access-format databases. FileMaker can save to .dbf just like Alpha Five. A list of export formats for Filemaker is listed at http://www.msdwc.k12.in.us/nhs/training/701impor.htm. That page is a couple of years old. I think that Filemaker can do XML exports too. >Back to FileMaker,I come across one link "Why Select Alpha Five instead >of Filemaker?" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >should one decides to switch from FileMaker to some other DB? Apples' >entire history is about being proprietary. As long as the database can be exported to more common formats, who cares? Perhaps Claris ditched the XBase format because of its limitations? >I've only glossed over a bunch of the messages in this thread but that >said, Filemaker would be my personal choice for an easy to use but very >powerful database for anyone but programmers, developers, and tech >weenies (the type that develop databases with MySQL and PHP to store >their address book of ten friends ;). It, like the other offerings, has its place. For scalability, portability and data integrity, I would be looking at something a lot more robust, and I wouldn't dream of going near MySQL! > >>Just installed Home Edition for trial. The first impression - user > >>friendly interface and well supported program. Has a nice introduction [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > SNTP I've used FileMaker, Alpha 4 and 5, Access, and Approach.. Approach blows them all away in terms of ease of use and capabilities. The only area Approach is lacking in is Web capabilities. Filemaker is the most difficult of the three (Approach, Alpha5, Filemaker) to learn and use. I would suggest not wasting your time on it (or Access). Approach does not have the market share or name recognition due to the lack of marketing by Lotus and IBM. Alpha 5 is worth a look, but you'll find Approach to be even easier to use. >> >>Just installed Home Edition for trial. The first impression - user >> >>friendly interface and well supported program. Has a nice [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > marketing by Lotus and IBM. Alpha 5 is worth a look, but you'll find > Approach to be even easier to use. Before this thread, I've actually never heard of Alpha 5 before. There can't be a very huge user base. I'd consider the level of support that you'll receive from the Internet as part of your decision making. Access and Filemaker seem to be the two most popular personal databases. There are a variety of mailing lists, newsgroups, bulletin boards, web sites, and users groups that provide support and community for the products. There are also many published books. You won't find that level of support and information as an Approach or Alpha 5 user. > >> >>Just installed Home Edition for trial. The first impression - user > >> >>friendly interface and well supported program. Has a nice [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > There are also many published books. You won't find that level of support > and information as an Approach or Alpha 5 user. There is excellent web support available for Approach. Generally, support isn't needed until you get into doing some very advanced things. Of course, it's nice to be able to ask basic questions in the beginning, and there are some places to do both. The best one is www.xpertss.com , where free, no spam support is available from experienced Approach users, as well as the person who literally "wrote the book" on it, Sue Sloan. There is also a mailing list, but the users tend to overlap with the xpertss users. Oh, I forgot to mention- IBM also has free support. >I've used FileMaker, Alpha 4 and 5, Access, and Approach.. Approach blows >them all away in terms of ease of use and capabilities. I have used all at one stage or another, and would rate Approach as the least approachable. >The only area Approach is lacking in is Web capabilities. Yup. >Filemaker is the most difficult of the three (Approach, Alpha5, Filemaker) to learn and use. I guess it is a matter of opinion. I would rate Filemaker as one of the easier desktop databases to master. > ... > I've used FileMaker, Alpha 4 and 5, Access, and Approach.. Approach blows > them all away in terms of ease of use and capabilities. The only area > Approach is lacking in is Web capabilities. I was thinking about something like that. The reason was that they are still selling "MILLENNIUM EDITION" of the suite. <G> > Alpha 5 is worth a look > ... Following my download of A5 they sent me email. Page http://was.alphasoftware.com/Web_Applications_Demo/default/MainMenu.a5w "Sample Alpha Five WebAppServer Pages" has demo files with extension .a5w for download. Unfortunately Windows XP and the both of my browsers - default Firefox and IE6 - does not know what to do with this type of files. Anyone knows what standalone program handles .a5w extension? TIA >> ... >> I've used FileMaker, Alpha 4 and 5, Access, and Approach.. Approach blows [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > TIA Never mind. I found the answer at http://filext.com/detaillist.php?extdetail=A5W. "A page designed to be run through the Alpha Five Web server with standard HTML as the output. These pages are similar in nature to .ASP and .PHP pages which also are a combination of HTML and code designed to produce the HTML sent to users." Basically, one needs to have Alpha Five Web server already installed to check the promotional. SNTP >Filemaker shows at the top on every search list and I had checked their >web site. I was scared away by descriptions like "... database software >for workgroups", etc. Could be a bit too complicated for me at this point. Actually it is not at all complicated. It is very much in the same league as Alpha 5. > It is probably the time to give a few more details about my plans. > The database will be sitting on one computer and used by one person at a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > -something else that will come to mind too late :-{ > Most of the records will become inactive very soon after the sales. What do you want to do with this data? Unless you have complex query needs, a spreadsheet might be fine for you. Signature--Tim Smith > ... > What do you want to do with this data? Unless you have complex query needs, > a spreadsheet might be fine for you. Tim, Thanks for the input. Mostly keeping all kind of info - a bunch of direct text entries and files. Not much number crunching. Spreadsheet might still be possible, but gets too awkward. SNTP John, you should take a look at Ingres :- The best database for your next project might be an open-source RDBMS that you've never heard of-or given much thought to. Ingres, from Computer Associates, is one of the most respected and mature relational database systems in the market, comparable in many ways to commercial databases like Oracle, DB2 and SQL Server and Sybase, as well as to the popular open-source MySQL and Postgres systems. The database was originally launched in the early 1980s, dubbed the "INteractive Graphics REtrieval System." It grew out of a series of heavy-duty database projects at the University of California campuses, went through several owners, and ended up at CA in 1994. For many years Ingres has been a virtual unknown, largely because CA simply didn't market it, focusing instead on its heavy-duty mainframe tools and management suites like Unicenter TNG. But then the revolution came: CA, which had been quietly maintaining Ingres and preparing a major update called r3, stunned the database world in May 2004 by announcing that it would release the next version under an open-source license. In August, that promise became reality, as the beta for Ingres r3 for Linux and Windows became available for a free download, usable at no cost for both development and deployment. The finished version of Ingres r3 became generally available in November, and CA has pledged to release versions of Ingres r3 for Solaris, HP/UX, AIX, HP Tru64 Unix and OpenVMS early in 2005. What about support? While CA offers public access to its support database, you have to pay if you want human support, of course-that's the way nearly all commercially backed open-source licenses work. If you sign up for a support contract, CA will also indemnify your company against any lawsuits regarding the intellectual property behind Ingres...that's almost a legal a necessity these days, alas. See "The Ingres Open Sources License" for more details on the exact open-source terms of use. Ingres has always been a strong database package. With r3's release to the open-source community, it's now become a compelling option, and enterprise developers should evaluate it for future projects, as a possible alternative not only to the commercial databases, but also to other open-source offerings. Inside Ingres r3 Ingres may be little known outside the halls of CA, but that doesn't mean it's been neglected. Because CA has been using Ingres as the embedded repository and RDBMS for many of its products, the company has continued to grow and enhance the database. So this new release into the open-source community isn't some dusty old obsolete bit of technology from the '80s, but a solid, mature, full-blown relational database management system (RDBMS) with a wealth of features that put it on par with other high-end RDBMSes. The offering includes the SQL-based database itself and a set of management tools. It also contains embedded SQL compilers, which can accelerate query performance, a set of character-based querying and reporting tools, drivers for Linux, Java and .NET, and transaction processing monitors compatible with IBM's CICS and Encina as well as BEA's Tuxedo. One of the notable characteristics of Ingres r3 is its flexibility. It supports a wide range of data types, and its Object Manager, which provided an object-oriented approach to defining new data types, was one of the first such features on the market. The database contains many types, including character large object (CLOB) and binary large object (BLOB), which are implemented in much the same way that Oracle handles its data types, which makes the systems comparable from the developer and administrator perspective. Recently added to Ingres is support for DTD-based XML, which is stored as standard relational tabular information, which means fast storage and fast retrieval. Another historical strength of the database is its DBA tools. CA includes two tools, called Visual Manager and Visual DBA: * Visual Manager is an integrated tool, included with Ingres, that is used to set up global parameters for the database server itself, including user access privileges, run-time performance, view log files and statistics, view message alerts and define default actions to error conditions. * Visual DBA is the classic database administration tool. It provides functions needed to create new databases and tables, connect to external data sources, monitor database performance, define replication parameters, optimize specific queries, and so-on. This is the tool you will use most of the time. Developing for Ingres r3 Computer Associates has paid good attention to the developer aspects of working with Ingres r3. The RDBMS supports standard SQL, of course, in several dialects, including OpenSQL, and a separate 4GL forms-based query language called QUEL. Figure 1. Ingres r3 includes a set of C-language APIs that are used by Visual DBA and other tools, but are also available for custom applications development. Source: Computer Associates There are several tools for developing applications, including Vision, which generates 4GL applications, and ABF (Application-By-Form), which generates forms-based apps. There's also a Visual Query editor that works with SQL and the QUEL language. Ingres r3 also includes a very comprehensive set of C-language APIs that are similar to Windows ODBC and the X/Open Call Level Interface. Those APIs, collectively referred to as OpenAPI, sit on a middleware layer, called GCA, for General Communications Architecture, as illustrated in Figure 1. Of course, not all applications have to be written in SQL or using the OpenAPI; it's more common these days to write n-tiered applications. For that, Ingres r3 offers a solid set of database connectors, including a JDBC 3.0 driver compliant with J2EE 1.4; an ODBC 3.0 driver that performs both OBDB Level 2 and Level 3 functions; and most recently, a .NET Data Provider that can be integrated with Visual Studio .NET. In keeping with Computer Associates' mainframe heritage, there are also data connectors for SNA LU-based interactions with host systems, and a number of other legacy links. Noticeably missing, however, is a direct Web Services stack-perhaps the open-source community will fill that gap! Worth Investigating For the past decade, Ingres has languished in relative anonymity, even while being enhanced and updated by CA. Now that it's been released to the open source community, this free database is suddenly a lot more attractive to developers and database administrators. If you're shopping for a database, and have been looking at Oracle, DB2, SQL Server and MySQL, you really should add Ingres r3 to your evaluation list-it might be just what you're looking for. > John, > [quoted text clipped - 121 lines] > Server and MySQL, you really should add Ingres r3 to your evaluation > list-it might be just what you're looking for. Thanks for all that. I normally use/recommend MySQL for small clients, many because Apache/MySQL/PHP is so widely supported by web hosts. I tend to use Postgres for bigger projects, but will keep an eye on the others. My main requirements are JDBC support, decent stored procedures and well thought out locking/constraint features. John > you should take a look at Ingres :- Michael, thanks for the info. I just tried to install Ingres and got the message that you can see on the picture: http://home.mycybernet.net/~gm10/Ingres.GIF That turned out to be a little bit too critic for a newbie like myself <VBG> and scared me away. BTW, I found no empty fields to fill out when I went back. I am sure Open Source will take care of it before long. SNTP > John, <SNIP> No he shouldn't buy or download Ingress. (or Mysql) He needs a simple canned application to help track his business. He should look for something pretty simple that is already built, and has support. This question really has nothing to do with databases or a variety of RDBMS's functionality. He has a business need; and is not really looking for a database technology to build his own small transaction system. For his case file cards (3 x 5 ) might be the perfect solution! People don't have infinite time and money to always build automated systems. His problem really has nothing to do with what database technology he should use; instead he should be defining his business need. Jim > ... He should look for something > pretty simple that is already built, and has support. Jim, this is exactly what I am looking for. I have tried Quicken and did not work out for me. Quicken is a financial program. It provides interface between an ignorant user and complex financial stuff. I have a collection of all kind of documents in my office, photos and drawings among them. Some of the data are in digital form, some can be digitized. Financial data is not a big part of it. Some kind of general database program looks like a natural fit. Almost anything will do as long as it is "pretty simple", reliable, easy to backup. SNTP > > ... He should look for something > > pretty simple that is already built, and has support. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > SNTP Approach will be perfect for you. It can handle graphics in what it calls a "PicturePlus" data type. > > ... He should look for something > > pretty simple that is already built, and has support. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =----- How about something very simple. A filing cabinet, and manila folders? Or if you want to be a little higher tech just create directories (folders) for each company and put the items there. Low cost, you don't have to hire anyone or learn a complex program etc. Jim > I am looking for free or shareware database to keep records in my small > business. In a year I will have several hundreds of records with [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers > =----- Just few more details: my computer has 1G of RAM and runs on WinXP, single user and the price tag under $100. > I am looking for free or shareware database to keep records in my small > business. In a year I will have several hundreds of records with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > SNTP It's not free, but Lotus Approach is what you want. > It's not free, but Lotus Approach is what you want. Allan, thanks for the response. Mention of Lotus brought back lots of good memories. Is Lotus Approach hard to learn? SNTP > > It's not free, but Lotus Approach is what you want. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =----- It's probably the easiest to learn, is very powerful, and comes with "SmartMasters" (templates) that you may be able to use for your business. It may not be available stand-alone any longer, which means you have to buy SmartSuite, but that is still pretty reasonable, IIRC. If you have problems finding it, let me know. You may find it on the net, but don't buy version 9.6- it was extremely buggy, and is not eligible for upgrades any longer. Get 9.8. > It's probably the easiest to learn, is very powerful, and comes with > "SmartMasters" (templates) that you may be able to use for your business. It [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 9.6- it was extremely buggy, and is not eligible for upgrades any longer. > Get 9.8. Just bought on eBay ver.9.8 of entire SmartSuite for ... $17. It won't get me broke. :-} Thank you for the help. SNTP > > It's probably the easiest to learn, is very powerful, and comes with > > "SmartMasters" (templates) that you may be able to use for your business. It [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > get me broke. :-} > Thank you for the help. Wow. Excellent deal. In case you need any help, post here, or check out www.xpertss.com (free, no spam site, but you need to set up an account) > Wow. Excellent deal. In case you need any help, post here, or check out > www.xpertss.com (free, no spam site, but you need to set up an account) > Nice site. I just joined. There will be questions, no doubt. Thanks a lot for the help. SNTP |
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