Database Forum / General DB Topics / General DB Topics / February 2005
database design books/articles/tutorials/etc?
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vinbarnes@gmail.com - 29 Jan 2005 17:34 GMT Hi all, I'm trying to get started w/ web applications and thought I should cover db design as well - figuring if my design was crappy my web proj would be too. Could someone point me to or recommend database resources that cover basic database design in the _real_ world. I have uncovered a couple at mysql. Oh, and I'm not really interested in reading about 4-5NF. :) Thanks, Kevin.
DA Morgan - 29 Jan 2005 18:07 GMT > Hi all, I'm trying to get started w/ web applications and thought I > should cover db design as well - figuring if my design was crappy my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > reading about 4-5NF. :) > Thanks, Kevin. Would like to offer you help but you don't really give any indication of your background and you dismiss one of the most important parts of a database education out of hand. Is it because you feel you already know how and when to normalize and denormalize? You don't say.
My recommendation would be to first off recognize that there are very substantial differences in concepts and architecture between the offerings of the different vendors. What one can and should do in DB2 is very different from what one can or should do in Sybase or MySQL.
If you can identify the RDBMS it would help. But generally speaking most serious product contenders have websites where one can read the architecture and concept docs. For Oracle, for example, one would go to http://tahiti.oracle.com. For Sybase one would go to http://www.isug.com/Sybase_FAQ. For DB2 there is a PDF available on the web, I can't find the URL right now, named Quick Beginnings for DB2 Servers.
HTH
 Signature Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)
vinbarnes@gmail.com - 29 Jan 2005 19:04 GMT I wasn't meaning to dismiss, it just seems in the articles that I could dig up, 4th and 5th normal form were not really plausible for real world database use - perhaps those folks are wrong. I'm interested in best practices (rules of thumb) for designing relational databases - specifically, enforcing relationships as much as possible in the database so as not to have to _code_ relationships - seems like that's something the database should take care of.
Alan - 30 Jan 2005 14:27 GMT > I wasn't meaning to dismiss, it just seems in the articles that I could > dig up, 4th and 5th normal form were not really plausible for real [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > database so as not to have to _code_ relationships - seems like that's > something the database should take care of. By designing the tables properly and building in the proper constraints (PK, FK, etc), the database does enforce the relationships. Often, 3NF is also in 4NF or 5NF as well. Rule of thumb- get to 3NF, check to see if it is possible and makes better sense to go further (or even to go back!).
leblanc74 - 31 Jan 2005 04:33 GMT As a Certified Database Developer, I recommend the following books: Database System, by Course Technology; ISBN:061906269x and Database for Mere Mortals, by Addison Wesley; ISBN: 0201752840... As stated above, the rule of thumb is to have your Tables into a 3NF...
Alan - 31 Jan 2005 14:51 GMT > As a Certified Database Developer, I recommend the following books: > Database System, by Course Technology; ISBN:061906269x and Database for > Mere Mortals, by Addison Wesley; ISBN: 0201752840... > As stated above, the rule of thumb is to have your Tables into a 3NF... Certified? By whom?
DA Morgan - 31 Jan 2005 19:26 GMT >>As a Certified Database Developer, I recommend the following books: >>Database System, by Course Technology; ISBN:061906269x and Database for >>Mere Mortals, by Addison Wesley; ISBN: 0201752840... >>As stated above, the rule of thumb is to have your Tables into a 3NF... > > Certified? By whom? I was wondering that too. Nobody I can think of certifies database developers. I'd really like to know as it is something the industry sorely needs.
 Signature Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)
Gene Wirchenko - 31 Jan 2005 19:32 GMT >>>As a Certified Database Developer, I recommend the following books: >>>Database System, by Course Technology; ISBN:061906269x and Database for >>>Mere Mortals, by Addison Wesley; ISBN: 0201752840... >>>As stated above, the rule of thumb is to have your Tables into a 3NF...
>> Certified? By whom? > >I was wondering that too. Nobody I can think of certifies database >developers. I'd really like to know as it is something the industry >sorely needs. Who would you have do it? I think that corporate certification is the fox in with the chickens, very self-serving. I would like to think that a baccalaureate would count for something.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
DA Morgan - 31 Jan 2005 20:15 GMT >>>>As a Certified Database Developer, I recommend the following books: >>>>Database System, by Course Technology; ISBN:061906269x and Database for [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Gene Wirchenko Were I my preference ... us. Who certifies physicians? surgeons? attorneys? American Board of Medical Specialties (www.abms.org) American Bar Association (www.aba.org).
 Signature Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)
vinbarnes@gmail.com - 31 Jan 2005 22:24 GMT Does anybody else have book/article recommendations? Thanks.
Peter Mount - 22 Feb 2005 12:56 GMT Hello
When I learned about normalisation in my IT studies I read "Data Modeling Essentials" by Simsion and Witt. I wound up buying the second edition. ISBN 1-57610-872-4. I don't know if there is a later edition. I find this a good book for Relational Database Management Systems.
And when you do decide on a book and buy one, stay away from the database software for a while. Buy some good pencils and rubbers (or "erasers" as the Americans like to call them) and lots of paper to use your pencils on. Then spend some time using your pencils and paper so draw ER Diagrams (Entity Relationship Diagrams) to third normal form from what you learn from the book. It's only when you can feel comfortable in drawing and ER Diagram and have one made up for your database then you can actually go to your database software and put together a database from what you have drawn.
Have fun
Peter Mount info@petermount.au.com
> Does anybody else have book/article recommendations? Thanks. gpl - 25 Feb 2005 01:44 GMT And I would add that it helps to 'release yourself' from the constraining language that your colleagues use to describe what they in their own special way refer to as entities.
Invariably, collective nouns used in every-day language are not really the entities of interest, but - if you will - a Users' View of a work-practice collection.
For example, I'm modelling a system where people go out and measure samples (RESULT) for a particular 'THEME' such as Birds, Insects etc...
So you would assume a THEME (parent) 'owns' many RESULTs (child) collected for that Theme.
In fact, Results are really the measurable outcome from applying a METHOD - in this case counting birds, counting insects, weighing insects etc.
The same METHOD may be associated with birds, or insects or a host of other Themes.
So the application of a METHOD (count 'em, weight 'em etc.) to a particular THEME (Birds, Insects) etc. is probably a SAMPLING EVENT.
A user's 'collective' is not necessarily, and perhaps rarely, the db designers entity...bit different to how it appeared at first blush.
(and yes there may be at least 3 other models that might apply having not bothered to explain the business logic any better than this).
Cheers
> Hello > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "erasers" as the Americans like to call them) and lots of paper to use > your pencils on. Then spend some time using your pencils and paper so
> draw ER Diagrams (Entity Relationship Diagrams) to third normal form > from what you learn from the book. It's only when you can feel [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > Does anybody else have book/article recommendations? Thanks.
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