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Database Forum / General DB Topics / General DB Topics / February 2005

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database design books/articles/tutorials/etc?

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vinbarnes@gmail.com - 29 Jan 2005 17:34 GMT
Hi all, I'm trying to get started w/ web applications and thought I
should cover db design as well - figuring if my design was crappy my
web proj would be too. Could someone point me to or recommend database
resources that cover basic database design in the _real_ world. I have
uncovered a couple at mysql. Oh, and I'm not really interested in
reading about 4-5NF. :)
Thanks, Kevin.
DA Morgan - 29 Jan 2005 18:07 GMT
> Hi all, I'm trying to get started w/ web applications and thought I
> should cover db design as well - figuring if my design was crappy my
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> reading about 4-5NF. :)
> Thanks, Kevin.

Would like to offer you help but you don't really give any indication
of your background and you dismiss one of the most important parts of
a database education out of hand. Is it because you feel you already
know how and when to normalize and denormalize? You don't say.

My recommendation would be to first off recognize that there are very
substantial differences in concepts and architecture between the
offerings of the different vendors. What one can and should do in DB2
is very different from what one can or should do in Sybase or MySQL.

If you can identify the RDBMS it would help. But generally speaking
most serious product contenders have websites where one can read the
architecture and concept docs. For Oracle, for example, one would go
to http://tahiti.oracle.com. For Sybase one would go to
http://www.isug.com/Sybase_FAQ. For DB2 there is a PDF available on
the web, I can't find the URL right now, named Quick Beginnings for
DB2 Servers.

HTH
Signature

Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)

vinbarnes@gmail.com - 29 Jan 2005 19:04 GMT
I wasn't meaning to dismiss, it just seems in the articles that I could
dig up, 4th and 5th normal form were not really plausible for real
world database use - perhaps those folks are wrong. I'm interested in
best practices (rules of thumb) for designing relational databases -
specifically, enforcing relationships as much as possible in the
database so as not to have to _code_ relationships - seems like that's
something the database should take care of.
Alan - 30 Jan 2005 14:27 GMT
> I wasn't meaning to dismiss, it just seems in the articles that I could
> dig up, 4th and 5th normal form were not really plausible for real
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> database so as not to have to _code_ relationships - seems like that's
> something the database should take care of.

By designing the tables properly and building in the proper constraints (PK,
FK, etc), the database does enforce the relationships. Often, 3NF is also in
4NF or 5NF as well. Rule of thumb- get to 3NF, check to see if it is
possible and makes better sense to go further (or even to go back!).
leblanc74 - 31 Jan 2005 04:33 GMT
As a Certified Database Developer, I recommend the following books:
Database System, by Course Technology; ISBN:061906269x and Database for
Mere Mortals, by Addison Wesley; ISBN: 0201752840...
As stated above, the rule of thumb is to have your Tables into a 3NF...
Alan - 31 Jan 2005 14:51 GMT
> As a Certified Database Developer, I recommend the following books:
> Database System, by Course Technology; ISBN:061906269x and Database for
> Mere Mortals, by Addison Wesley; ISBN: 0201752840...
> As stated above, the rule of thumb is to have your Tables into a 3NF...

Certified? By whom?
DA Morgan - 31 Jan 2005 19:26 GMT
>>As a Certified Database Developer, I recommend the following books:
>>Database System, by Course Technology; ISBN:061906269x and Database for
>>Mere Mortals, by Addison Wesley; ISBN: 0201752840...
>>As stated above, the rule of thumb is to have your Tables into a 3NF...
>
> Certified? By whom?

I was wondering that too. Nobody I can think of certifies database
developers. I'd really like to know as it is something the industry
sorely needs.
Signature

Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)

Gene Wirchenko - 31 Jan 2005 19:32 GMT
>>>As a Certified Database Developer, I recommend the following books:
>>>Database System, by Course Technology; ISBN:061906269x and Database for
>>>Mere Mortals, by Addison Wesley; ISBN: 0201752840...
>>>As stated above, the rule of thumb is to have your Tables into a 3NF...

>> Certified? By whom?
>
>I was wondering that too. Nobody I can think of certifies database
>developers. I'd really like to know as it is something the industry
>sorely needs.

    Who would you have do it?  I think that corporate certification
is the fox in with the chickens, very self-serving.  I would like to
think that a baccalaureate would count for something.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
DA Morgan - 31 Jan 2005 20:15 GMT
>>>>As a Certified Database Developer, I recommend the following books:
>>>>Database System, by Course Technology; ISBN:061906269x and Database for
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Gene Wirchenko

Were I my preference ... us. Who certifies physicians? surgeons?
attorneys? American Board of Medical Specialties (www.abms.org)
American Bar Association (www.aba.org).
Signature

Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)

vinbarnes@gmail.com - 31 Jan 2005 22:24 GMT
Does anybody else have book/article recommendations? Thanks.
Peter Mount - 22 Feb 2005 12:56 GMT
Hello

When I learned about normalisation in my IT studies I read "Data
Modeling Essentials" by Simsion and Witt. I wound up buying the second
edition. ISBN 1-57610-872-4. I don't know if there is a later edition. I
find this a good book for Relational Database Management Systems.

And when you do decide on a book and buy one, stay away from the
database software for a while. Buy some good pencils and rubbers (or
"erasers" as the Americans like to call them) and lots of paper to use
your pencils on. Then spend some time using your pencils and paper so
draw ER Diagrams (Entity Relationship Diagrams) to third normal form
from what you learn from the book.  It's only when you can feel
comfortable in drawing and ER Diagram and have one made up for your
database then you can actually go to your database software and put
together a database from what you have drawn.

Have fun

Peter Mount
info@petermount.au.com

> Does anybody else have book/article recommendations? Thanks.
gpl - 25 Feb 2005 01:44 GMT
And I would add that it helps to 'release yourself' from the
constraining language that your colleagues use to describe what they in
their own special way refer to as entities.

Invariably, collective nouns used in every-day language are not really
the entities of interest, but - if you will - a Users' View of a
work-practice collection.

For example, I'm modelling a system where people go out and measure
samples (RESULT) for a particular 'THEME' such as Birds, Insects etc...

So you would assume a THEME (parent) 'owns' many RESULTs (child)
collected for that Theme.

In fact, Results are really the measurable outcome from applying a
METHOD - in this case counting birds, counting insects, weighing
insects etc.

The same METHOD may be associated with birds, or insects or a host of
other Themes.

So the application of a METHOD (count 'em, weight 'em etc.) to a
particular THEME (Birds, Insects) etc. is probably a SAMPLING EVENT.

A user's 'collective' is not necessarily, and perhaps rarely, the db
designers entity...bit different to how it appeared at first blush.

(and yes there may be at least 3 other models that might apply having
not bothered to explain the business logic any better than this).

Cheers

> Hello
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> "erasers" as the Americans like to call them) and lots of paper to use
> your pencils on. Then spend some time using your pencils and paper so

> draw ER Diagrams (Entity Relationship Diagrams) to third normal form
> from what you learn from the book.  It's only when you can feel
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> > Does anybody else have book/article recommendations? Thanks.
 
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