My company is seriously thinking of going to Oracle and using RAC/DataGuard for their high availability solution.
I know Informix can compete with this, as I'm pretty sure Cheetah has the latest and greatest in HA software.
I am unable however to find some decent white papers on this. IBM's site seems to have some very dated stuff.
Does anyone know where I can get some good and current sales/technical type literature for the latest and greatest features of IDS ?
Thanks,
floyd
Madison Pruet - 28 Feb 2008 16:59 GMT
> My company is seriously thinking of going to Oracle and using
> RAC/DataGuard for their high availability solution.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Does anyone know where I can get some good and current sales/technical
> type literature for the latest and greatest features of IDS ?
Floyd,
I would suggest that you join the open beta for Cheetah2. There is new
functionality in Cheetah2 which will significantly improve the
availability story for IDS.
Here is the web site to join the Cheetah2 open beta program.
http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/informix/ids/open-beta.html
>
> Thanks,
> floyd
Floyd Wellershaus - 28 Feb 2008 17:25 GMT
Thanks all for the quick replies !!
Floyd
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: current informix white papers ?
From: "Nilesh Ozarkar" >;nilesho@us.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, February 28, 2008 11:25
White paper - ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/data/informix/ids11-availability-wp.pdf
Redbook - http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/SG247488.html?Open
HTH
-Nilesh.
informix-list-bounces@iiug.org wrote on 02/28/2008 10:20:36 AM:
> My company is seriously thinking of going to Oracle and using RAC/
> DataGuard for their high availability solution.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Informix-list@iiug.org
> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
DA Morgan - 29 Feb 2008 07:53 GMT
> My company is seriously thinking of going to Oracle and using
> RAC/DataGuard for their high availability solution.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Thanks,
> floyd
Actually Informix can not compete with this and has no technology with
a similar capability. C'est dommage.
I especially like Madison's response to you: Get into the beta. If you
are looking for an HA solution ... beta ... and version 1 are not it.

Signature
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Obnoxio The Clown - 29 Feb 2008 08:10 GMT
DA Morgan said:
>> My company is seriously thinking of going to Oracle and using
>> RAC/DataGuard for their high availability solution.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> I especially like Madison's response to you: Get into the beta. If you
> are looking for an HA solution ... beta ... and version 1 are not it.
Yes, you'd clearly be much better off with a highly scalable, easy to
implement solution like Oracle RAC.

Signature
Bye now,
Obnoxio
"There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason
and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your
panic you turned to the Labour Party. They promised you order, they
promised you peace, and all they demanded in return was your silent,
obedient consent."
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by OpenProtect(http://www.openprotect.com), and is
believed to be clean.
Neil Truby - 29 Feb 2008 08:14 GMT
>> My company is seriously thinking of going to Oracle and using
>> RAC/DataGuard for their high availability solution.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> I especially like Madison's response to you: Get into the beta. If you
> are looking for an HA solution ... beta ... and version 1 are not it.
Well that's not true, is it? Informix does already have powerful, viable,
proven technology for High-Availability (Informix HDR for example). However
it is true to say that this solution is not yet, in pre-v11 releases,
"distributed" in the way that Oracle RAC is.
I do agree with Daniel's comments that one wouldn't be wanting to look at a
beta version of *any* product for HA required right now.
Madison Pruet - 29 Feb 2008 12:14 GMT
>> My company is seriously thinking of going to Oracle and using
>> RAC/DataGuard for their high availability solution.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> I especially like Madison's response to you: Get into the beta. If you
> are looking for an HA solution ... beta ... and version 1 are not it.
DA - you missed my point. I guess that's expected from you since you
have repeatedly demonstrated a rather feeble intellect.
Floyd already mentioned that he knew Cheetah (the previous release) had
a lot of new HA capacity. Also several folks had already pointed out
links to current white papers. I suggested that he also look at the beta
for the upcoming release because it has a whole bunch of additional HA
functionality and he was asking for information on new IDS HA functionality.
Madison Pruet - 29 Feb 2008 12:37 GMT
>> I know Informix can compete with this, as I'm pretty sure Cheetah has
>> the latest and greatest in HA software.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I especially like Madison's response to you: Get into the beta. If you
> are looking for an HA solution ... beta ... and version 1 are not it.
I guess I should be so hard on you Dan - after all I'm kind and gentle
to dumb animals. Also you have given me the opportunity to mention the
Cheetah2 open beta again.
For anyone that is interested, the site to join the Cheetah2 open beta
is at http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/informix/ids/open-beta.html
Fernando Nunes - 29 Feb 2008 12:58 GMT
>> My company is seriously thinking of going to Oracle and using
>> RAC/DataGuard for their high availability solution.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Actually Informix can not compete with this and has no technology with
> a similar capability. C'est dommage.
Can you explain us why?...
Oh... and do not forget the OP motivation... High availability...
Thanks.

Signature
Fernando Nunes
Portugal
http://informix-technology.blogspot.com
My email works... but I don't check it frequently...
Art S. Kagel (Oninit) - 29 Feb 2008 13:32 GMT
>
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>
Daniel's pointing to the fact that IDS 11.10's MACH11 technology
implementation provides only READ-ONLY service from the SDS
secondaries. Other than that, a dubious advantage since using RAC
secondaries in read-write configurations reduces the cluster's
scalability significantly, there's nothing useful in RAC that's not in
MACH11.
Art S. Kagel
Oninit
===========================================================================================
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Fernando Nunes - 29 Feb 2008 14:58 GMT
> Daniel's pointing to the fact that IDS 11.10's MACH11 technology
> implementation provides only READ-ONLY service from the SDS
> secondaries. Other than that, a dubious advantage since using RAC
> secondaries in read-write configurations reduces the cluster's
> scalability significantly, there's nothing useful in RAC that's not in
> MACH11.
Don't get me wrong, but I will prefer to see DA Morgan's answer...
Undoubtedly he will search the net in search for arguments. The last time I
bother to discuss something with him he found a lot of interesting stuff...
Unfortunately most of it was easily usable to show that he was wrong (from
prices to technical stuff) so he kept jumping from subject to subject,
constantly searching for something right to say ( whether or not it was
relevant to the original post).
So, although completely useless, because he will not stop, it's kind of fun
from time to time... And since I'm just doing some work related to IDS (and
replication by the way), it would be very interesting to me at this time...
As for the original post, this reminds me another flame a while ago... If
someone is interested in moving to Oracle because of HA, someone should really
find out what is really motivating them... Pay more and suffer a migration to
gain nothing that eases their pain... sounds completely wrong...
And again... Checking an open beta does not mean we are saying them to move
into a non available product... It just means that the new version will have
significant changes in this area. We are all bound to non-disclosure agreements
but it's very easy to find out what it is... Every version have a place where
we can see the changes... and a beta version is not an exception :)
Regards,

Signature
Fernando Nunes
Portugal
http://informix-technology.blogspot.com
My email works... but I don't check it frequently...
Art S. Kagel (Oninit) - 29 Feb 2008 13:21 GMT
>
>> My company is seriously thinking of going to Oracle and using
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> are looking for an HA solution ... beta ... and version 1 are not it.
>
This brief rant would be sad if you even had an inkling about what you
are writing about. If I didn't actually suspect that you were a shill
for IBM IMS rather than for the fat O, I wouldn't bother to respond.
Even so, I normally don't.
First, you are correct, as currently released IDS does not have all of
the functionality of Oracle's RAC. Personally I don't see that as any
loss as I don't see clusters as any kind of HA solution at all. If
something takes out my data center RAC is not going to save the
business. At best cluster failover is a PART of an HA solution and the
only useful thing that RAC provides on top of that is some load
balancing possibly less expensive capacity upgrade. Though if the thing
actually scaled well that part would work SO much better.
However, putting all of that aside, as Madison said, check out the IDS
Cheetah2 Beta on that front. IDS doesn't make coffee either, something
far more important and close to my heart than RAC! But then it's not
meant to make coffee. What it does provide, with HDR, ER, SDSS, and RSS
- the whole MACH11 suite - is a comprehensive set of solutions to
provide TRUE HA and not just high availability but constant availability
and infinitely configurable and dynamic load balancing. And IDS does
this BETTER than any alternative technology. Cheetah2 extends that as,
likely, will Cheetah3 when it comes along.
Now, Morgan, please, lose the address of this newsgroup.
Art S. Kagel
Oninit
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===========================================================================================
Floyd Wellershaus - 29 Feb 2008 15:27 GMT
>>As for the original post, this reminds me another flame a while ago... If
someone is interested in moving to Oracle because of HA, someone should
really
find out what is really motivating them... Pay more and suffer a migration to
gain nothing that eases their pain... sounds completely wrong...
<<
I assure you I am not flaming or trolling. I really think the main push to
consider Oracle has more to do with our Developement team crying for it
for years. There are lots of tools to make a developers job easier it
seems, and getting developers that know Oracle is supposedly easier.
Believe me, I am trying my best to fight them on this. I am not interested
in dealing with a harder to maintain database that doesn't handle our load
as well. Proving it to the management is another issue though.
If we do go to Oracle, it would probably be with RAC plus DataGuard, which
I think will cover most if not all of the same areas that Informix HA
stuff does, and I guess I can look at it as that I'll be learning a new
gig and getting more marketable.
I'm amazed at the controversy my little question sparked, and am reading
it all hoping to take in something of value. Your apparent thought that my
initial post was some sort flame is not something I expected however.
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: current informix white papers ?
Date: Fri, February 29, 2008 10:00
From: "Fernando Nunes" <spam@onlinedomus.net>
Art S. Kagel (Oninit) wrote:
> > Daniel's pointing to the fact that IDS 11.10's MACH11 technology
> > implementation provides only READ-ONLY service from the SDS
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> As for the original post, this reminds me another flame a while ago... If
> someone is interested in moving to Oracle because of HA, someone should
really
> find out what is really motivating them... Pay more and suffer a
migration to
> gain nothing that eases their pain... sounds completely wrong...
>
> And again... Checking an open beta does not mean we are saying them to move
> into a non available product... It just means that the new version will
have
> significant changes in this area. We are all bound to non-disclosure
agreements
> but it's very easy to find out what it is... Every version have a place
where
> we can see the changes... and a beta version is not an exception :)
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Informix-list@iiug.org
> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
Floyd Wellershaus - 29 Feb 2008 16:19 GMT
Thanks for the explanation Fernando. I am fighting some heavily entrenched
notions that I don't quite understand yet. Our CTO read the IDC report and
somehow gleaned from that, that Informix doesn't suit our heavy OTLP batch
and web online environment as well as Oracle. I'm still trying to pin
their thinking down on that one, because I read the opposite in it.
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: current informix white papers ?
Date: Fri, February 29, 2008 10:56
From: "Fernando Nunes" <spam@onlinedomus.net>
> >>> As for the original post, this reminds me another flame a while
ago... If
> > someone is interested in moving to Oracle because of HA, someone should
> > really
> > find out what is really motivating them... Pay more and suffer a
migration to
> > gain nothing that eases their pain... sounds completely wrong...
> > <<
> >
> > I assure you I am not flaming or trolling. I really think the main
push to
> > consider Oracle has more to do with our Developement team crying for it
> > for years. There are lots of tools to make a developers job easier it
> > seems, and getting developers that know Oracle is supposedly easier.
>
> I believe you... And what you're saying matches my thoughts... It's not
because
> of HA...
>
> > Believe me, I am trying my best to fight them on this. I am not
interested
> > in dealing with a harder to maintain database that doesn't handle our
load
> > as well. Proving it to the management is another issue though.
>
> Sure. And the references that you were given may help with the HA
reasoning,
> but will they be useful regarding your development team worries?
Probably not
> > If we do go to Oracle, it would probably be with RAC plus DataGuard,
which
> > I think will cover most if not all of the same areas that Informix HA
> > stuff does, and I guess I can look at it as that I'll be learning a new
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> > I'm amazed at the controversy my little question sparked, and am reading
> > it all hoping to take in something of value. Your apparent thought
that my
> > initial post was some sort flame is not something I expected however.
>
> I didn't explain myself clearly... I didn't mean your question was a
flame. If
> I made that impression I'm sorry. I tried to say, that this question
reminds me
> a recent thread that turn into a flame...
> As for your hopes of reading something of value, you'll be better served
with
> the white papers... My experience tells me that any discussion with DA
Morgan
> turns into useless crap... He will probably try to "sell" Oracle RAC,
and if it
> fails he will try to "sell himself" as he does even in the Oracle groups...
>
> If he chooses to show the Oracle RAC features you may gain something,
but if he
> goes the other way (show Informix lack of features) it will be awful,
because
> his knowledge of the product is inexistent (although the time he spends
here
> could have help him to gain some knowledge) and his ability to search
> information about it is very weak...
>
> Any way, my point is apparently valid... The reasons apparently are not
very HA
> specific... So after educating yourself on Oracle/Informix HA features
you may
> want to find out what are the problems your development team find in
> Informix... And then, as always, there will be people here trying to
help you
> (and/or them). Even if we fail, at least we'll learn more about developers
> concerns regarding Informix. This is also helpful, both to IBM and to their
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Informix-list@iiug.org
> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
Floyd Wellershaus - 29 Feb 2008 17:16 GMT
Just so you know, we don't have performance issues that multi-threading
our apps wouldn't solve, and you are correct in that as far as I can tell,
the reasoning is rather capricious sounding to me also.
But thanks for the offer to help.
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: current informix white papers ?
Date: Fri, February 29, 2008 11:53
From: "Fernando Nunes" <spam@onlinedomus.net>
> > Thanks for the explanation Fernando. I am fighting some heavily
entrenched
> > notions that I don't quite understand yet. Our CTO read the IDC report
and
> > somehow gleaned from that, that Informix doesn't suit our heavy OTLP
batch
> > and web online environment as well as Oracle. I'm still trying to pin
> > their thinking down on that one, because I read the opposite in it.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> version. If the answers to all of these are no, then I'd say we're wasting
> time. If someone has the power to decide and has already done it, then
hire a
> few more DBAs, improve your hardware, get yourself trained and end of
story :)
> We've been "traveling" from HA to "suit OLTP and web" passing by "developer
> doubts"... the only thing constant apparently is the unreasoned will to
change...
> Anyway, we'll be here to help, if and when a real problem arises...
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Informix-list@iiug.org
> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list