So much energy in this group :-)

Few points:
* I personally know one of the guys who helped prep the survey.
  Matter of fact he was presenting it internally
  (and some of the result so far as they pertain to DB2) when I posted
  here.
  So.. Yeah what does Gumby know? ;-)
* There is this movement prised above all at IBM right now which is
  called outside-in-design and the not-so-technical folks get
  sometimes carried away by attempt to root anything in a business
  problem. Such is life.
  It can get rather amusing to fit an "outer join" into a task solving a
  business problem. But most times reason prevails...
* Ultimately however it does matter whether you encounter a problem
  more likely because you are:
  a) An ISV trying to sell a CRM system
  b) CISCO trying to deploy a router
  c) Who knows what.
  As it so happens certain technical patterns are more likely to be
  encountered in certain "business" scenarios. So mining this
  correlation can be valuable.

I took the liberty of sending some of the feedback
(censored to fit a PG rating) back to said person who gave the presentation.

Cheers
Serge

Sigh.

I suggest you go back and re-read this entire thread.

The point I was addressing was what IBM means when they ask about a customer's pain.
That is IBM's SSM speak. Don't believe me, ask your manager to send you to SSM training.

When I give a short answer, you rush in to "defend" IBM for something that doesn't need to be defended.

IBM is a company that is like any other company. They want to sell more product.

If you don't believe me, then I suggest you sit down over drinks and discuss this with S. Miller.

But hey! What do I know? ;-)
I'm just trying to save the world from drivers who trust their GPS Nav systems and drive in to ponds and other water features.
Or in OTC's case, trying to find the closest pub. ;-)

-G

_________________________________________________________________
The other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i’m Talkathon.
http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_SeasonOfGiving

Why do you think that you are right?

I'm not sure that the incremental improvements in Informix are good
enough to sell to the market.  I've yet to hear about anything from outside the
c.d.i community or the IIUG.  I believe IBM put money into the product to
retain its existing base, but in the larger picture _outside_ the Informix
community there is absolutely zero buzz or street cred.   I've heard more
about Postrges / Green Plum in the last year than anything coming from IBM.

The improvements that I _have_ heard about speak to the existing customer
base, and in the case of Walmart, they alone generate enough revenue to
pay for improvements.  So the thinking that IBM are pouring a lot of money
into Informix is bogus, because nobody has ever even talked about a broader
base of consumers other than the top few repeated here.  There is no marketing
program, nothing to get developers excited about.  The full enterprise edition
is time-bombed, as if anyone were actually going to use it in a production
context, much less without paying for the license.  Nobody has heard of Informix
so that whole argument is bogus.

So, I know I get under your skin, as well as a lot of the other IDS sychophants,
but try to see outside the IBM/Informix box, and think about a world without
Informix.  _That_ is the world I live in, still waiting for the dolts at IBM to
see opportunity instead of the status quo.  Still waiting for Informix to be
marketed like it should be.  I could run circles around the people marketing
Informix, and get a developer program going.  But that is as likely as IBM
actually having a marketing program for IDS.

-ID-

First, there are only a few very large customers like a Wal*Mart, K-Sears, etc...

I could give you a list of large customers, however, I don't think IBM would like me talking about them. ;-)

Verizon has been a long time customer of Informix.
And they were/are large enough to warrant an on site Regency... er Premiere Services Engineer.

Yes, and so too does Moto imbed IDS. Unfortunately, the future for Moto isn't so bright ...

Oh there are a lot of IDS customers out there and there are some former Informix customers that I could name too.

Moto, Siemens, Cisco, etc ... all OEM IDS.
Verizon,Wal*Mart, Home Depot, K-Sears all use IDS internally.

Two different groups of "customers".

And to InDeep's point,  these lists of customers are mainly un-named. There are a lot of companies using IDS, but no one knows this. IDS aka Informix, is the IT Industry's dirty little sekret. Unfortunately the one area that IBM sucks is in viral marketing.

But hey!
Why fix something that even while broken, is still out selling DB2 on LUW aka distributed platforms? ;-)
Its not the product which is broke, but the marketing and sales effort of IBM that is broke.

On a side note... While IBM's IDS management team tries to get the word out internally, just briefing the sales force isn't enough. You have to give the sales force incentives to sell the product. Did you ever wonder why the sales force pushed so hard to convert IDS customers to DB2 right after the acquisition? Simple really. The sales rep was comp'd on net new licenses. A conversion from IDS to DB2 counted as a net new license. And of course, the Informix customer was now an existing IBM customer so you had lower barriers to entry. ;-)

But hey! What do I know?
Its not like I spent 5 years in the belly of the beast cross matrix'd to S&D... Oh wait. I was. :-(

-G

_________________________________________________________________
The other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i’m Talkathon.
http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_SeasonOfGiving