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Database Forum / Informix Topics / October 2008There needs to be a free Informix Express
Sun has MySQL, Microsoft has MSSQL Express, Oracle has 10g Express. IBM has DB2 Express-C but no Informix *free* Express. There is one but if you actually wanted to use it in a small production web environment it'll cost you at least $5,000 (due to PVU costs). I find it frustrating to be a cash strapped startup that's designing a website and not having the ability to build on Informix. I could build on virtually every other DB out there and deploy to production with it, but I can't use the one I'd like to build on because IBM doesn't like IDS. Just venting and hoping that some yahoo from IBM will read this and think "hmm.. Why do we have a free DB2 but no free Informix?" BTW, I'm aware that I can download IDS from iiug.org but it specifically states that it's to be used for non-production uses. I'm also aware that many free versions have limitations on them, I'm okay with that cause if the site get popular enough then we'd be able to afford licenses. > Sun has MySQL, Microsoft has MSSQL Express, Oracle has 10g Express. IBM > has DB2 Express-C but no Informix *free* Express. There is one but if [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > okay with that cause if the site get popular enough then we'd be able to > afford licenses. And then you woke up right? *<8o) >> Sun has MySQL, Microsoft has MSSQL Express, Oracle has 10g Express. IBM >> has DB2 Express-C but no Informix *free* Express. There is one but if you >> actually wanted to use it in a small production web environment it'll >> cost you at least $5,000 (due to PVU costs). >> I find it frustrating to be a cash strapped startup that's designing a >> website and not having the ability to build on Informix. I could build on >> virtually every other DB out there and deploy to production with it, but >> I can't use the one I'd like to build on because IBM doesn't like IDS. ... >> BTW, I'm aware that I can download IDS from iiug.org but it specifically >> states that it's to be used for non-production uses. You're allowed to deploy the free downaloads of Oracle or DB2 in production if you haven't got much money? Really?? > >> Sun has MySQL, Microsoft has MSSQL Express, Oracle has 10g Express. IBM > >> has DB2 Express-C but no Informix *free* Express. There is one but if you [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > You're allowed to deploy the free downaloads of Oracle or DB2 in production > if you haven't got much money? Really?? Actually, one can use DB2 Express-C both for development and production legally, free of charge. Of course, without support and without fix packs. It has limitations on number of CPUs and memory (depending on version, 4 or 2 GB memory, 2 CPUs) but no limit of database size nor of number of connections to database. Even some advanced features like MDC are included. Darko Krstic > > "DL Redden" <redde...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Darko Krstic Yeah but you get what you pay for. I think that a comment from a DBA who works for a very large IDS account put it succinctly ... "If there was a free version of IDS, we'd ditch the licensing and go with the free one." Yeah, IDS is *that* *good* that even a "dumbed down" version is still worthwhile. But we're talking about IDS vs Oracle and DB2 commercial versions. If your database needs were simple enough to use a dumbed down version of DB2, you might as well go with Postgres. If you need commercial support, you can always get licensing cheaper than you could for either Oracle, DB2 and alas, IDS. > But we're talking about IDS vs Oracle and DB2 commercial versions. > If your database needs were simple enough to use a dumbed down version > of DB2, you might as well go with Postgres. If you need commercial > support, you can always get licensing cheaper than you could for > either Oracle, DB2 and alas, IDS. The "dumbed down" of Oracle limits the number of CPUs and the size of the database ... not the features. A free IDS could, similarly, limit to a single CPU and 4GB of storage. If your response is that these would qualify as large IDS shops then you've got a bit of a problem. Oracle has now defined "large database" to mean greater than 200TB.  SignatureDaniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond) > The "dumbed down" of Oracle limits the number of CPUs and the size > of the database ... not the features. > Daniel A. Morgan > University of Washington > damor...@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond) Really? So the "dumbed down" version can do RAC and also has the full geo-spatial implementation? Sorry I don't believe that. Plus being able to take advantage of the number of cores in my box is a feature as is the size of the database. And that boys and girls confirms the point. IDS is far superior that even a "dumbed down" version, still kicks butt. -G > > The "dumbed down" of Oracle limits the number of CPUs and the size > > of the database ... not the features. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > -G If it kicks so much butt, which I personally think it does, why is IBM worried about a loss in "potential" revenue when the actual revenues could be so much higher. If it were easier for developers and startups to get a hold of and use more companies would start to use resulting in more licenses being purchased. Someone at IBM is either much smarter than me and see's the flaw in my thinking or they're just dumb and can't see the possibilities. They are making decisions out of fear instead of trusting the product to sell itself if it gets into the right hands. Have some faith in IDS and just get it out there. > >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > in more licenses being purchased. > Not if the "dumbed down" version could do everything they wanted. > Someone at IBM is either much smarter than me and see's the flaw in my > thinking or they're just dumb and can't see the possibilities. They > are making decisions out of fear instead of trusting the product to > sell itself if it gets into the right hands. Have some faith in IDS > and just get it out there. > It's probably a bit of both. :o) SignatureCheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com > >>> The "dumbed down" of Oracle limits the number of CPUs and the size > >>> of the database ... not the features. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Not if the "dumbed down" version could do everything they wanted. Your statement drives home my point that the concern is with the potential for lost revenue instead of investing in the proliferation of IDS as an easily accessible database platform for folks to start projects with. The version should not offer all of the bells and whistles. I think that the following limitations would suffice. 1 CPU 2 GB of memory 10 GB of disk space 100 concurrent connections No support No Datablades, maybe Allow UDR's and UDF's in order to promote community development Any system that uses such modest resources is not hardly worth collecting revenue on. Many will grow into something that is worth licensing. > > Someone at IBM is either much smarter than me and see's the flaw in my > > thinking or they're just dumb and can't see the possibilities. They [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > http://obotheclown.blogspot.com > And that boys and girls confirms the point. > > IDS is far superior that even a "dumbed down" version, still kicks > butt. Unless one takes a look at that truly marvelous survey asking you whether you want future versions of IDS to contain features that have been available in Oracle and SQL Server for generations. When done kicking butt perhaps it will focus on competing in the marketplace. It is hard to kick butt when you are laying face down on the floor. SignatureDaniel A. Morgan > >> And that boys and girls confirms the point. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the floor. > I'll defer to your obviously peerless knowledge of such matters. SignatureCheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com ] > You're allowed to deploy the free downaloads of Oracle or DB2 in > production if you haven't got much money? Really?? For Oracle Express - yes, with limits on size of database, and with no support (i.e you can't call us if it all goes horribly wrong). The other editions (Standard, Enterprise etc) can be used for free fo some limited initial development, but once you start to use them in anger, you need to license them. > ] > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > some limited initial development, but once you start to use them in > anger, you need to license them. Yup. thats the hook. Free to develop your first prototype and then you're charged for your development copy. And of course Mark points out the limitations for using their "dumbed down" version. This is why InDeep keeps harping on trying to get the "developer community". Even a developer program, like the one offered currently by IBM wouldn't work for some under capitalized start ups. ($800 for a development environment should be a no brainer.) I read through the info quickly, so I could have either misunderstood or simply not read what I needed to. But, in the small amount of time that I spent looking it seemed to me that you could use them as you saw fit but they came with cpu, memory and possibly connection limits. Please correct me if you're so inclined. ----- Original Message ---- From: Neil Truby <neil.truby@ardenta.com> To: informix-list@iiug.org Sent: Thursday, October 2, 2008 12:52:15 AM Subject: Re: There needs to be a free Informix Express >> Sun has MySQL, Microsoft has MSSQL Express, Oracle has 10g Express. IBM >> has DB2 Express-C but no Informix *free* Express. There is one but if you >> actually wanted to use it in a small production web environment it'll >> cost you at least $5,000 (due to PVU costs). >> I find it frustrating to be a cash strapped startup that's designing a >> website and not having the ability to build on Informix. I could build on >> virtually every other DB out there and deploy to production with it, but >> I can't use the one I'd like to build on because IBM doesn't like IDS. ... >> BTW, I'm aware that I can download IDS from iiug.org but it specifically >> states that it's to be used for non-production uses. You're allowed to deploy the free downaloads of Oracle or DB2 in production if you haven't got much money? Really?? _______________________________________________ Informix-list mailing list Informix-list@iiug.org http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > Sun has MySQL, Microsoft has MSSQL Express, Oracle has 10g Express. IBM has DB2 Express-C but no Informix *free* Express. There is one but if you actually wanted to use it in a small production web environment it'll cost you at least $5,000 (due to PVU costs). > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I'm also aware that many free versions have limitations on them, I'm okay with that cause if the site get popular enough then we'd be able to afford licenses. First there is no *free* release of Oracle or DB2 when you hit production. Its the same with IDS. You can download a version from the IIUG and start developing. You can "pay to play" by joining the IBM developers network and get access to a lot of IBM software. Even MySQL in production isn't free, although Sun isn't actively pursuing a "true-up" campaign to collect untold revenues. So you have an option. Use Postgress, and run with it. As your site grows, migrate to IDS. Or you can lie a bit, and put a pre-production release of your software in to production and then when you're successful, you buy the IDS licenses. You wouldn't be the first nor the last where a "proof of concept" went live during a beta test. ;-) -G > First there is no *free* release of Oracle or DB2 when you hit > production. Both Oracle's and IBM's free versions can be used in production. You can use ANY version of Oracle for free in a development environment,up until you finish your first prototype. >I find it frustrating to be a cash strapped startup that's designing a website >and not having the ability to build on Informix. I could build on virtually >every other DB out there and deploy to production with it, but I can't use the >one I'd like to build on because IBM doesn't like IDS. yes you could deploy using other RDBMS from their free edition but u get no support. You have to pay for it. In other words some serious problem with the database, u better buy a new hot dog stand. |
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