Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
Database Servers
DB2InformixIngresMS SQLOraclePervasive.SQLPostgreSQLProgressSybase
Desktop Databases
FileMakerFoxProMS AccessParadox
General
General DB TopicsDatabase Theory
Related Topics
Java Development.NET DevelopmentVB DevelopmentMore Topics ...

Database Forum / Sybase Topics / September 2004

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Sybase on UltraSPARC IV

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Per Eirik - 28 Sep 2004 20:15 GMT
Suns new UltraSPARC IV processor supports Chip Multi-Threading (CMT) where
each physical CPU act as two logical CPUs to the OS:

http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/whitepapers/Sun_Fire_Enterprise_Servers_Perfo
rmance.pdf


I have heard that Sybase UK claims that you have to buy two Internet Access
Licences for each UltraSPARC IV CPU because it acts as two CPUs to the OS.
Can this really be true?

In case, is it possible to turn off Chip Multi-Threading on Sun/Solaris
servers?

I think CMT is comparable to Hyperthreading on Intel XEON CPUs. Sybase
recommends that Hyperthreading should be turned off to maximize Sybase
performance on Linux, see page 3:

http://www.sybase.com/content/1025313/linux_optimizing_performance_wp.pdf

Would that also be the case for UltraSPARC IV processors?

Thanks!

Per Eirik
(remove all underscores in email address)
Anthony Mandic - 29 Sep 2004 02:25 GMT
> Suns new UltraSPARC IV processor supports Chip Multi-Threading (CMT) where
> each physical CPU act as two logical CPUs to the OS:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Licences for each UltraSPARC IV CPU because it acts as two CPUs to the OS.
> Can this really be true?

    I very much doubt it. Its best to ask your local Sybase sales rep.
    But, if its one physical CPU, I don't see how they can charge you
    a license for two (assuming your licensing is CPU based). Regardless,
    an Internet Access license isn't dependant on the number of CPUs
    (or is it?). The real issue would be - how many Sybase ASE engines
    can you run? If its only one, then its only the one CPU to ASE.

> In case, is it possible to turn off Chip Multi-Threading on Sun/Solaris
> servers?

    No idea. Its best to ask that in the Solaris or Sun hardware newsgroup.
    Sun will have info online as well.

> I think CMT is comparable to Hyperthreading on Intel XEON CPUs. Sybase
> recommends that Hyperthreading should be turned off to maximize Sybase
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Would that also be the case for UltraSPARC IV processors?

    Hard to say. Sybase ASE has its own threading model so it doesn't
    make use of an OS's own threading. Whether its on or off makes no
    difference to ASE.

-am    © 2004
Casper H.S. Dik - 29 Sep 2004 10:03 GMT
>> I think CMT is comparable to Hyperthreading on Intel XEON CPUs. Sybase
>> recommends that Hyperthreading should be turned off to maximize Sybase
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
>> Would that also be the case for UltraSPARC IV processors?

No, Hyperthreading and UltraSPARC IV CMT are not the same thing; the
UltraSPARC IV is two CPUs on a single die with some cache bits shared.
The performance is comparable to two independent CPUs.

Hyperthreading shares most of the CPU real estate; the maximum performance
gain is a few percentage points and a for certain workloads there's
a performance loss.

Casper
Signature

Expressed in this posting are my opinions.  They are in no way related
to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.
Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may
be fiction rather than truth.

noone - 30 Sep 2004 01:41 GMT
>>Suns new UltraSPARC IV processor supports Chip Multi-Threading (CMT) where
>>each physical CPU act as two logical CPUs to the OS:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>     an Internet Access license isn't dependant on the number of CPUs
>     (or is it?).

It is ...e.g. We have an Internet Access license ( IAL )  for 6 CPUs on
an E3500, and another IAL for 2 CPUs on a SunFire 280R.
Anthony Mandic - 30 Sep 2004 04:31 GMT
> It is ...e.g. We have an Internet Access license ( IAL )  for 6 CPUs on
> an E3500, and another IAL for 2 CPUs on a SunFire 280R.

    Sounds like a rip when you consider the speed of those CPUs compared
    to more recent ones from a well known competitor.

-am    © 2004
Anton Rang - 29 Sep 2004 05:19 GMT
> Sun's new UltraSPARC IV processor supports Chip Multi-Threading (CMT) where
> each physical CPU act as two logical CPUs to the OS [...]:
>
> I have heard that Sybase UK claims that you have to buy two Internet Access
> Licences for each UltraSPARC IV CPU because it acts as two CPUs to the OS.
> Can this really be true?

It would depend on Sybase's licensing model.  They might choose to
make you purchase two licenses for an UltraSPARC IV, since it is
roughly twice as fast as an UltraSPARC III....

> In case, is it possible to turn off Chip Multi-Threading on Sun/Solaris
> servers?

Well, you can disable a processor core using 'psrset' but then you
aren't using half of the machine that you bought.

> I think CMT is comparable to Hyperthreading on Intel XEON CPUs.

No, it's quite different.

A hyperthreaded Intel CPU has a single processor core which
alternately issues instructions from two threads (the details are more
complex, but that's the rough idea).  Once the instructions from the
two threads have been issued, the single processor core executes them
together, possibly simultaneously if enough resources are available.

An UltraSPARC IV, like a POWER 4, has two separate processor cores.
They each run one thread.  In many ways, it's like having two entirely
independent processors, just glued together into one chip.

> Sybase recommends that Hyperthreading should be turned off to
> maximize Sybase performance [ ... ]
> Would that also be the case for UltraSPARC IV processors?

No.

On the Xeon, you want hyperthreading disabled because most of the
threads are doing database work, and would be competing for the same
set of processor resources -- having two database threads in the
processor at once would just slow both of them down.

On the SPARC, you want both processor cores enabled because they each
have a complete set of resources [*] and would both be doing useful
work on a database thread.  Given two threads, they'll run very nearly
twice as fast as a single thread.

-- Anton

(Disclaimer: I work for Sun, albeit not in the processor or systems group.)

[*] There are a few resources shared, notably the system bus interface
and the cache.  However, the system bus interface supports several
outstanding transactions, so it's unlikely to be a bottleneck.  The
cache could be, but two database threads are likely to be accessing
many of the same areas in memory, so the shared cache might actually
be a net win here, or at least a wash.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2010 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.